“We’ve had our best ever year in corporate income at Candlelighters, and these events have helped that. There are specific examples of £10,000 partnerships, but overall, it has helped deliver that best ever year in corporate income.”

One of the best ways to grow fundraising income is to find ways to add value to relationships with supporters and partners. This makes sense in theory, but how do you do it in practice, and with consistency, especially if your resources are limited?

Events can be very effective! Though many charities use them to raise funds directly, it is more unusual to regularly use events for stewardship and to inspire subsequent support or partnerships.

In this episode Chris Salt describes the event strategy that his relatively small charity uses to inspire existing and potential corporate partners. The approach has helped fuel his charity’s best ever year of corporate fundraising results. To help you weigh up whether something similar could help your own fundraising, Chris shares how they do it and what they’ve learned.

We’d love to know what you think! And thank you for supporting our show, for example, by sharing it with colleagues or on social media. We are both on LinkedIn and on X / Twitter Rob is @woods_rob.

Episode overview

[01.22] Rob and Chris begin by discussing a successful strategy for deepening relationships and growing income through partnerships with companies.

[03:26] Chris shares the challenges of corporate fundraising, reasons for creating events, and objectives of the events. As well as some examples of the events his organisation runs. 

[09:39] Rob and Chris share examples of successful partnerships and the impact of the events on partnerships. As well as involvement of families in events and how helpful it is for colleagues to better understand the charity’s work.

[12:40] They explore the impact of events in improving internal collaboration and community building within the charity. And how encouraging informal communication between charity and business staff is impactful for long-term partnerships.

[16:31] Chris and Rob discuss the value of repeated events for businesses and the charity, strengthening connections and networking.

[24:55] Finally, Rob and Chris talk about the positive impact on growing corporate income, with specific examples of successful partnerships.

Further Resources

Fundraising Bright Spots Episode 59 – The fundraising tactics bringing fabulous results for our hospice, with Paul Courtney

Fundraising Bright Spots Episode 132 – Winning multiple corporate partners, with Cara Hoofe and Sabrina Nixon

Stay in touch

To join our mailing list / get access to our newsletter, including to hear about our popular Breakfast Club for Fundraising Leaders, which happens every 3 months, follow this link.

Want to transform your Corporate Partnerships or Major Donor fundraising?

To learn tried and tested techniques for growing corporate partnerships income, and get help in implementing them, check out our ever popular Corporate Partnerships Mastery Programme. 

Or to grow your skills, confidence and RESULTS in Major Donor or Trusts fundraising, check out our flagship Major Gifts Mastery Programme, now in its tenth year.

Want to go deeper and get 24/7 access to LOTS more inspiring training?

Our training and inspiration club for fundraisers, the Bright Spot Members Club, has an extensive library of Rob’s best training films, a supportive community, and access to live masterclasses and problem-solving sessions with Rob and other experienced fundraising / leadership trainers EVERY WEEK. To find out more about how to get access to all these resources, go here.

———-

Transcript of Episode 155

Chris Salt (00:00:00) – ‘We bring all those businesses together. There’s an opportunity to hear from somebody, either from the front line or a family member. There’s an opportunity to network, there’s a fun element, and then there’s sharing of ideas. This has created a community.’

‘We’ve got businesses who are almost like season ticket holders, who come to every event and who’ve got to know each other.’

‘We just see ourselves as a conduit. We just kind of link it all together, bring people together. The magic really, you know, is not about us necessarily. It’s about the other people in the room and just bringing people together to create that community. It’s been absolutely positive. We’ve had our best ever year in corporate income at CandleLighters. These events have helped that. There’s some specific examples of £10,000 partnerships. There’s more than that. But overall it has helped deliver our best ever year in corporate income.’

Rob Woods (00:01:07) – Welcome back to the Fundraising Bright Spots podcast. This is episode 155. My name is Rob Woods, and this is the show for fundraisers who want ideas and maybe a little dose of inspiration to help you raise more money and really enjoy your job.

Rob Woods (00:01:22) – Now, if your charity raises funds through corporate partnerships, then I hope you’re going to find this one really helpful, because this time we’re looking at a powerful strategy for deepening relationships and growing income through partnerships. As you may be aware, one of the keys to growing fundraising income is to deliberately add value to relationships with your partners and other funders. But of course, one of the great challenges is how do you do this effectively and consistently, especially if your resources are limited? To show you one of my favourite strategies, I spoke to Chris Salt, a smart, generous fundraiser who is philanthropy and relationship manager for candle Lighters. Candle lighters is a wonderful charity that helps children with cancer and their families in Yorkshire. In the UK this year, candle lighters have had their best ever fundraising results from working with their generous corporate partners. And in our conversation, Chris shares a key element of the strategy that has helped fuel this fabulous growth. Hi Chris, welcome to the podcast. 

Chris Salt (00:02:20) – Hi, Rob. 

Rob Woods (00:02:22) – Thank you so much for making time to chat to me. I know you’re a very busy fundraiser and you agreed because we chatted the other day about this particular strategy you’ve had recently that’s really been paying off, and you kindly agreed to make time to chat to me before we get into what that technique is. That might help our listeners. Could you tell us what your role is and the name of the charity you work for and what that charity does?

Chris Salt (00:02:45) – Yeah. So great to be here, Rob, and thank you for having me on. So yes, my name is Chris. I’m part of the philanthropy team at Candlelighters, and we’re a charity that brings comfort to families and invests in research around childhood cancer. 

Rob Woods (00:03:04) – You’re based in Leeds, roughly how large or small is your charity?

Chris Salt (00:03:11) – So we’re a regional based charity. So we cover the Yorkshire area staff team is around 35. plus some roles that we fund as well.

Rob Woods (00:03:19) – And how many people in the fundraising team? 

Chris Salt (00:03:23) – Yeah, we’re a very small team. So there’s six of us in the fundraising team.

Rob Woods (00:03:26) – And I know in the past you’ve done both corporate fundraising and high value philanthropy, major donor type fundraising. And in terms of corporate fundraising, goodness knows it’s not easy for many charities. Many charities do do events, but the main objective of the event is to make money on the day or on the night of the event. In a moment we might hear how you did something a little bit different, but I guess before that my question is why did you feel it might be worth your while to create some kind of event to help with your corporate fundraising?

Chris Salt (00:04:00) – Yeah, it’s challenging to get in front of people, you know, whether they’re existing businesses. Everybody’s busy with their day job, or it’s difficult to get in front of prospects. So having an event to invite them to that isn’t a fundraising event was just a great thing to have in the calendar. And also businesses were saying to me, how does our support make a difference? Who were the other businesses? Can we network together and how do we get ideas for fundraising? So I think a combination of those two things were why we pressed ahead with having events.

Rob Woods (00:04:37) – Right. So the objective was both for the existing partners to get that sense of the difference they were making and maybe to meet each other and maybe get new ideas or re-inspired maybe hear some of the stories of the differences they’re already making with their support, but also something that might help you get your foot in the door. I know that in an earlier episode, we talked to Paul Courtney from Children’s Hospice Southwest about a similar event or series of events they’ve done for those very objectives. I really liked that, but I’m also conscious that charity is quite a bit larger than yours. So I was really intrigued and impressed that a smaller organisation had made this tactic work. Top line: what does the event look like and how often does it happen? How long is it?

Chris Salt (00:05:26) – Yeah, an interesting you mention, Paul, because it was actually listening to that podcast episode and being on Corporate Mastery that were the reasons for doing it, but it’s a free event, straight after work midweek. We’re very clear it’s not a fundraising event. So, you know, we make a joke. Nobody’s asked to put the hand in the pocket and we bring all those businesses together. There’s an opportunity to hear from somebody, either from the front line or a family member. There’s an opportunity to network. There’s a fun element, and then there’s sharing of ideas.

Rob Woods (00:06:01) – So and roughly how long does that last?

Chris Salt (00:06:04) – So around two two and a half hours and it’s free to come.

Rob Woods (00:06:07) – How many times a year do you tend to run the event? 

Chris Salt (00:06:14) – Yeah. So we’ve experimented. Really. So we’ve done them three times a year, which feels like a good amount of time between each one. And having the limited resources that we’ve got as well feels manageable.

Rob Woods (00:06:26) – Yeah. I can see if you were trying to do it more often than that. Really the effort and resources involved, you know, would take its toll. But equally, I know of quite a lot of charities that just have events that make money great.

Rob Woods (00:06:41) – And they might occasionally do an event like this, which isn’t designed to make money with the outcome. Are these other objectives similar to what you’ve said? But they just do it once they put all this effort often into doing something quite big and impressive. And it’s useful. It’s good, but everyone’s then exhausted and then some of the companies didn’t come to that one anyway because they were busy. And there’s usually a lot of learning, which if we did, another one could be really useful. But the plan all along was just to do one, and then we forget about it and we might repeat it the next year. Or when someone has the energy again later. A thing I really like about what you’ve done is even though you are smaller than many charities, you’ve decided it is worth your while to make it a series, a repeated thing. Can you talk me through the rationale for how you decided to do it that way?

Chris Salt (00:07:30) – Candlelighters is a culture of trying things. So initially we’re in the pandemic, we’re coming out of the pandemic.

So we thought, well, we could try a virtual event. You save a lot of time booking venues and things like that. It’s a bit easier to try it. So we just started small and tried it and the feedback from there was great. And so we tried an in-person one next, again, not knowing whether they would work or not, but it was just have a go. And that was from the top, you know, from our CEO, from my line manager, head of fundraising. So it was giving it a go. And actually because of that initial feedback early on and the initial success we felt that this was something worth continuing with. And then it just worked when we’re having conversations and test drives. Now with people, it’s just so easy to say, why don’t you come along and meet some of the other businesses that were involved? You know, it’s free, we’ll feed and water you. You’ll have a good night. Because fun is a core value at candle lighters. And so, you know, anybody who comes to those events hopefully encounters the culture of what Candlelighters is like.

Chris Salt (00:08:37) – So it just made sense. Rob, to be honest, I think we had some early wins that really helped from the very first one. Rob and you know, there’s some serendipity involved. But yeah, the kind of head of a charity committee came to that event. We were on a charity of the year with them. They were a law firm. And just after hearing there was a mum who shared her journey and the difference having candle lighters around made to that family. And it was just following that, you know, and he said, you know, it was charity of the year. But we’re not going to end. We will continue and it’s a charity of choice. And that was around a £10,000 a year partnership at that time. So that was one win straight after the first session in kind of pure monetary terms, if you like. And then another law firm as well was meant to be a charity of the year partnership. They came to the three business collaboration events that we’d put on and that yeah, they said to us, there’s no way we can possibly stop after hearing all this.

Chris Salt (00:09:39) – And every time I come along, I learn something new about how our support through you makes a difference to families. And again, that was £10,000 a year. So they extended to a two year partnership as well. So you know and those are just a couple of monetary outcomes outputs if you like.

Rob Woods (00:09:59) – Yeah that’s amazing. And what I’m kind of imagining is part of it is because of how hard your colleague might work to bring to life the amazing difference of the work, because it’s not easy, is it, to justify both the time of your colleague who works frontline, or indeed to make this request of a family or a parent? In fact, I come back to the business angle in a moment. Do you want to speak any more about what you’ve learned about persuading colleagues to come along or helping your director or the chief executive justify that this is time well spent, and it’s a reasonable request to a parent whether they’d be willing to help.

Chris Salt (00:10:37) – Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s been the other way.

Chris Salt (00:10:40) – I think families like to give back in lots of different ways, whether that’s fundraising, whether it’s advocacy or being an ambassador or volunteering. And so I remember the first one, we’ve got a private Facebook group just for families, and we kind of said, well, we’ll ask for a volunteer. Ten volunteers came back to say, I’d love to speak at your event, so, you know, if there was any going into my own head about, is this okay to ask another? I spoke with the relevant teams and they put the message out. But yeah, there’s ten parents saying, I’d love to help. Let me know how I can help. So that was great. And in terms of the team, you know, thinking about our most recent one, people volunteer to come. so we’ve got finance coming along to volunteer. We’ve got HR, we’ve got a family support team, and some of the fundraising team. So actually it becomes a whole charity thing and that’s people volunteering in their own time because we’ve built up, oh, it’s business collaboration.

Chris Salt (00:11:37) – Wasn’t it a great event. So and actually staff attending because we provide so much support it’s very difficult to understand everything that we do. So even staff who’ve come have gone I, I didn’t know we did that or they’ve, you know, a family member and mum or dad has spoken and just helped us who were in it day to day understand. Oh when I’m in finance counting the money or doing whatever. Actually this is the family. It’s helping. So I think it’s really galvanised internally that some of the trustees come along, some development board members come along. So, you know, actually one of the things was around creating a community. And that’s what I remember from Paul speaking as well. And so this has created a community. We’ve got businesses who are almost like season ticket holders who come to every event and who’ve got to know each other. So yeah, it just works on a number of different levels, as well as kind of cash in the extended partnerships and deepening partnership partnerships.

Rob Woods (00:12:40) – So that’s so interesting.I think for many of our listeners, one of the biggest headaches they face is internal working, not necessarily them understanding the point of view of finance or comms or service delivery. And certainly the other way round, people can experience how hard it can be to try and get colleagues to tune in to the importance of fundraising and spending time adding value in this way. It is just one of the great headaches. Anyway, I sense that your organisation does have a pretty good culture. as good as most I’ve talked to. So, hooray! You’ve created this event in that context and hats off to leaders and all involved anyway in being part of that culture. But I also find it interesting there’s kind of a chicken and egg thing, actually. What I hear is a thing that’s helped that come together even more in terms of this opposite of silo working, this holistic way of pulling together and trying to understand each other’s point of view, the very act of putting in the time and effort and resource to create this event, which ostensibly has a fundraising objective in and of itself, has further improved the team working and breaking down the walls of the silos.

Chris Salt (00:13:55) – Yeah, absolutely. It’s yeah, it’s win win win on so many different levels. So yeah, it’s great. You know, you’ve got team members who wouldn’t ordinarily get to meet the businesses, who support us, who are involved. So it’s really interesting for them as well.

Rob Woods (00:14:14) – Yeah. It’s just a slight tangent. It’s certainly true when I study the really long standing partnerships that work year on year, they stay in the company’s delighted and the charity’s delighted. One of the characteristics of those is when. And it’s not always easy in practice, but it’s when the fundraiser themselves is not the sole conduit, like the gatekeeper between the charity and the business. It’s when, for that particular partner, their finance person happens to have developed some relationship with the charities finance person or comms and comms or kind of the leaders of the two organisations. If and when you, as the fundraiser, can facilitate and increase the chances that those informal dotted lines are happening as well, and it doesn’t always have to come through you.

Rob Woods (00:15:04) – You know, sometimes it brings a few headaches that you have to manage. But overall, the more lines of communication there are, the more long term and efficient the partnership is likely to be.

Chris Salt (00:15:16) – Yeah, definitely. It’s so interesting you bring that up because just at the last event, we had, somebody who does social media for one of the companies that we work with spoke to our social media, and they had a great conversation. So, yeah, absolutely. To that point.

Rob Woods (00:15:32) – Yeah, I love that, there’s so many different bits of this I’m interested in, but one of them is what you said there about kind of a season ticket holder. Of course, it’s harder for a charity to do this three times a year than just once a year. But I think there’s great power. And this is something I learned from Paul, who we were mentioning earlier. If you can make the recipe simple enough that you don’t need a fancy venue every time, somehow you solve the venue thing and the costs thing, and you have a recipe which broadly you can replicate even if you have a different space.

Rob Woods (00:16:06) – Or a different ambassador each time, so you can have it set up so you do it three times a year. A huge upside is the fact that any single business can, either the same person can come three times a year, and or different people from the business can come each time. And that again just strengthens the connection for that partner to the difference they’re making for the charity.

Chris Salt (00:16:31) – Yeah, absolutely. We’ve had businesses genuinely who I think have maybe only missed 1 or 2 of those three that we’ve been doing over the last years, and they will bring different people to those. But then it’s also that kind of intercompany kind of relationships that get built up as well by coming consistently. so people just begin to help each other with their fundraising events.

Rob Woods (00:16:56) – So that’s really interesting. Clearly a part of the value and the inspiration is hearing from a parent and ambassador or your colleague who works to help those families. But another human motivator or human need that is met actually, is this sense of belonging or connecting to a tribe that believes in something powerful and important? And actually the companies that come along more than once start to connect and see the same faces each time.

Anyway, that’s enjoyable and good for the human spirit. But even like maybe, maybe there is some value in the networking of that.

Chris Salt (00:17:36) – Yeah, absolutely. You know, we’ve had companies who’ve and this is to the collaboration part who have been doing an event. Oh what we’re doing the golf day because we hand over the microphone to the people in the room. Have you got anything you’d like to share? And there’s some companies who will have a chat beforehand for a little bit of social proof. We’ll get them to speak and share ideas. And the feedback that’s then come after those events is that idea was great. I’m going to take that back. There was one kind of salary sacrifice that another company took away to go and have a look at. But yes, you know, here’s a golf day. Does anybody want to put a team in where doing a football tournament, where doing a ball. Does anybody have any prizes they could give? So I think what you mentioned earlier, Rob, the way I saw it was when I was speaking to businesses.

Chris Salt (00:18:24) – How does our support make a difference? Who are the other businesses? Is there an opportunity for networking? How can we get ideas? Can we collaborate on anything? My thinking at that time was, how can we create a platform that doesn’t rely on me speaking to everybody individually? And because I was on corporate mastery and we’re talking about events, he is the way to do that. And really, my myself and my colleague Ian who helps on this now on leads on them. we just see ourselves as a conduit. We just kind of link it all together, bring people together. The magic really, you know, is not about us, necessarily. It’s about the other people in the room and just bringing people together to create that community. Yeah, I love that.

Rob Woods (00:19:13) – it’s so much more efficient than us having to have a conversation with every single person there. and be it just, it’s a great thing about the human spirit that if we all believe in something, we share a particular value or goal.

Rob Woods (00:19:29) – Just how powerful that is to leave everyone to it and make use of these resources and these colleagues and these other people who are trying to do a good thing, let them get on with it. And there are you, I guess, effectively like the gardener, just creating the environment in which good people can do wonderful things.

Chris Salt (00:19:48) – Yeah. And, you know, I think if there’s an opportunity for us to add value, if we know some people would get along or kind of the nature of their work, you know, we’ll try and link businesses and people up in that sense. But yes, definitely, I think it’s more just about the bringing together of people, which isn’t without its challenges. As we said, right at the top, you know, people are very busy. we’re in a post-Covid world where people are hybrid working and things like that. So, you know, it’s not without challenges, but we’ve seen enough benefits to to keep continuing with the program.

Rob Woods (00:20:24) – I guess, if the listeners are thinking of doing a version of this or they’ve done a one off, but they’re really based on this, I’m going to look seriously at something which repeats, it would really help me to just get a picture of what your recipe is.

Rob Woods (00:20:41) – You know, every charity is going to do it differently. Some will do it online because they need to. Maybe their colleagues on the front line are in a different country or whatever, or maybe their partners are based all over the country or all over the world. But for you, the recipe is in-person. It happens three times a year. It’s about two to 2.5 hours. Does the venue change each time? And that’s part of how you’ve set it up.

Chris Salt (00:21:08) – Yeah. So the venue would change for, wherever we can get it free of charge, essentially. So there’s a cost saving. so law firms have been particularly good for that. Some of our hospitality partners have been really good for that. It’s a great way for them to give back and great PR for them. and then we’ve had it sponsored as well, which, which helps, promote other businesses. so yeah, the venue will change depending on partners at times.

Rob Woods (00:21:38) – Yeah, just on the sponsorship. I know of a hospice that’s had a series like this sponsored headline sponsor for every event they do. Is that the nature of how you do this or do you have a different sponsor each time?

Chris Salt (00:21:53) – To be completely honest, Rob, sponsorship is fairly new to us as a team. So, getting business collaboration particularly sponsored is quite new as well. But we’ve secured a couple of partners who like to sponsor more than one. So it’s just. Yeah, I wouldn’t say we’ve necessarily got people booked in for all three. Really.

Rob Woods (00:22:13) – Top line, what’s the split in terms of the timings of the networking bit on the open mic, where they can be sharing their fundraising ideas with each other versus how? How long is spent talking about the cause or the difference that the charity makes.

Chris Salt (00:22:27) – So kind of we start off with a family member or a researcher or a family support worker, whoever that is speaking probably for around half an hour, 40 minutes might be a Q&A session there, depending on who’s speaking. And then quite often, it’s normally good to have a quick coffee break after that. You know, some of that content can be quite emotive, and heavy.

Chris Salt (00:22:50) – So it’s good to have a break. Then we go into a fun activity that gets people networking and mixed up. So the last one was building towers out of spaghetti and jelly babies, and a prize for who made the biggest one of which. We didn’t see that many tall ones, but just something fun to get people moving. And we make sure that people are mixed up. So it’s not, you came with five of your mates and you’re doing it together. We make sure people are mixing so that maybe takes another half an hour. Then we’ve got the opportunity for people to share, which is 15, 20 minutes. And then there might be some things that we want to talk about as a charity as well. So if we’ve got challenge events coming up or, you know, we have recruiting for a trustee and development board members, there’s an opportunity there. And then there’s just some open networking for people to hang around or, or go home at the end. So we try to keep it quite tight.

Rob Woods (00:23:40) – Hi, it’s Rob and I want to quickly share some news about a special fundraising masterclass that I’m offering this summer. To put it in context, I first met Chris when he took part in our Corporate Mastery Programme during one of the lockdowns, and he recently told me that one of the most helpful modules in that course was the one on storytelling. He said that applying those ideas has played an important part in the progress they’ve been enjoying in the last couple of years. And if you’re a regular listener to this podcast or you’ve done one of our courses, or maybe if you’ve read my book The Fundraiser, Who Wanted More, you know that improvements in storytelling and messaging are still one of the most powerful ways I’ve found to help a charity grow fundraising income. So this year, for the first time, I’m delivering a special one off masterclass focused on storytelling and influence in your fundraising. It’s happening in London on the 26th of June 2024, and if you get there quick, there’s an early booking discount worth £100.

Rob Woods (00:24:33) – If this sounds like it might be valuable for you or someone in your team, do check out the information on our website at brightspotfundraising.co.uk/services and click on Storytelling and Influence Masterclass. Right now, let’s get back to my conversation with Chris. 

Top line for your event. Roughly how many come each time?

Chris Salt (00:24:55) – Yeah, it varies a little bit. but generally around 35 to 4550 around that kind of Matt.

Rob Woods (00:25:03) – And Chris, if there are fundraisers listening and they don’t currently do events this way, or this approach to relationship building or stewardship with their partners or potential partners, but they’d like to potentially do this and justify why they might go ahead. Could you share the top line of what your experience has been overall in how it’s helped results?

Chris Salt (00:25:23) – Yes, it’s been absolutely positive. We’ve had our best ever year in corporate income at candlelighters in no part. You know, these events have helped that there’s some specific examples of £10,000 partnerships. There’s more than that. But overall it has helped deliver that best every year in corporate income.

Rob Woods (00:25:46) – So Chris, thank you so much for those final ideas and for talking us through how you do this event and how it’s paying off. I really do appreciate you’ve made the time just to share how it’s worked for you. And a couple of those examples to help other charities potentially work out how they might emulate this approach. I really enjoyed catching up with you. Until the next time. Chris, thanks very much for coming on the podcast.

Chris Salt (00:26:11) – Thanks, Rob.

Rob Woods (00:26:12) – Bye bye. So there you go. I love this bright spot story, not least because it shows that finding a way to consistently add value and create more conversations with your funders or partners massively pays you back for that effort, as we always do. We’ll put a summary and a full transcript in the episode notes on the podcast section of our Bright Spot website. If you’ve not already subscribed to this podcast, please do click that button now. You’ll get instant access to dozens more techniques to help you grow your fundraising. And I have to say, we’ve got lots more inspiring stories to share in the next few weeks, so please don’t miss the chance to receive those straight to your phone.

Rob Woods (00:26:51) – As I mentioned earlier, I am super excited about our special one off masterclass on storytelling and influence that I’m delivering in person on the 26th of June 2024. I’m going to be sharing the system that I’ve carefully honed over the last two decades of training to help you grow fundraising income through a bunch of different ways to tell stories effectively. The course includes the biggest pitfall that harms most charities’ results, and exactly what you can do to solve it. It also includes the approach that helped the fundraising team at a particular medical charity to grow income by 240% in 14 months, and I’ll also share my favourite techniques that I was taught by a professional storyteller many years ago. And I’m going to share many, many more techniques and examples to help you bring your course to life and inspire your supporters in a range of different contexts. All I can say is, if you’ve ever found this podcast helpful, I promise you that this full day interactive masterclass is going to take your learning and inspiration to a completely different level. I totally appreciate that.

Rob Woods (00:27:53) – Because of geography, not everyone is going to be able to get there. But if you can potentially get yourself to London on the 26th of June, go to brightspotfundraising.co.uk/services and click on the Storytelling and Influence Masterclass. Just one last thing I would say though, this masterclass is only happening once this year and because the space at the venue is limited, we know that, as happened with our recent Wire Donors masterclass, these places will sell out. Finally, if you found today’s podcast helpful and you think it would help other people, please do spread the word and share it on. Do let us know what you think. Chris and I are both on LinkedIn and on Twitter. Or I am @woods_rob, thank you so much for listening and supporting the fundraising bright spots show. Good luck with your fundraising and I can’t wait to share more bright spot stories with you very soon.